Former radical group leader Mark Rudd of the Weather Underground, a 1960s militant offshoot group of Columbia’s Students for a Democratic Society (SDS), returned to New York City to celebrate his new book Underground: My Life with SDS and the Weathermen.
Now a retired community college instructor living in New Mexico with his second wife, Rudd continues to stay active locally and spreads his story of organization and mass movement. “It is not a heroic story,” he says, but Rudd hopes that his personal narrative might point budding activists in the right direction nevertheless.
Stephanie J. Lee spoke with Rudd before his book party last night for an inside look on how to organize mass movements.
New York Press: Tell me more about this book. What inspired you to write it? What are you hoping to convey?
Mark Rudd: Basically the book is a story. It’s my own story of good organizing, which is about Columbia, then it’s followed by bad organizing, which is about the Weather Underground. By organizing, I mean what people do to build a movement and some of the terrible mistakes you could make while doing it. Good organizing is one-on-one engagement with people—much like what we did at Columbia. Bad organizing is the belief that if you just express yourself, people will join you. I consider Weatherman to be that kind of self-expression and ineffective.
From what I’ve been reading, it’s unclear whether or not there was just one specific event that marked the founding of the Weathermen…?
That’s interesting. In a way, the specific event was the townhouse accident—the bomb on Mar. 6, 1970 on West 11 St., where three people were killed. But the planning for it had begun before that. Its origins were in the ideas of militancy and armed struggle, you know, and the expression of how much we hated war and racism. That began at Columbia in 1968.
In a sense, this is a New York story that I am telling.
Can you speak a bit more to the evolution of the group, namely what it had become and your opinions on that?
Well SDS very large organization, about 400 chapters on colleges and high school campuses. There was quite a large number in New York City. Within that group, some of us took away a lesson from the Columbia strike of April 1968, which was more militant. That seemed to be the lesson from Columbia. We linked that lesson with the knowledge or belief that there would be revolution around the world. This could be taken from the motto. We were all followers of Che Guevara.
Between 1968 and 1970, we thought [the lesson learned] is what we were doing. We formed a faction—Weathermen, which wanted to move the bigger organization into what was based on a piece of paper that group wrote for a convention in 1969.
After that convention, I was elected national secretary. My faction won control of the national office in Chicago, and yet, we didn’t really have that many supporters. There were maybe two dozen chapters that supported this line of anti-imperialism. At the end of ‘69 we made a decision to go underground and begin an armed struggle. We thought we were applying Che’s theory.
How successful do you think the Weathermen was in achieving its mission?
Not at all! Everything we set out to do…Nothing we set out to do, we accomplished!
How did you feel as the leader of this group? Any reflections on that role…
I think part of the problem was that I was in over my head. I was posing as a great revolutionary, when in fact, I didn’t really know what to do. It didn’t take too long for that to catch up with me.
Even though I was a founder of this organization, within months of being national secretary, I sort of went downward in the leadership. I demoted myself. I didn’t believe I was who I was pretending to be—the great revolutionary leader. This is not a heroic story.
Why did you leave the group?
I was still a fugitive at the end of 1970. I was a fugitive from Mar. of 1970, and I officially left as a member at the end of 1970. I didn’t really voice my criticism till much later. I thought that the problem was mine, that I was not strong enough to be the great heroic revolutionary that was needed. That’s kind of one of the themes of the book.
Can you speak more to the Ayers/Obama controversy?
I would say that I was appalled by the attempt to sort of slur Obama through this casual acquaintanceship with Bill. As it was happening I thought geez, the Weather Underground killed three people by a bizarre accident, and yet John McCain dropped humongous bombs on people from 10,000 feet in the air on villages and towns. And how many innocent people did he slaughter? But they all talk about Ayers being a terrorist. McCain was an actual terrorist! I mean that’s what war is, especially mechanized war—it’s terrorism. I think I would have loved it if that fact had come out. It’s terroristic but it’s called war and sanctioned by the state, and therefore it’s okay.
The US was murdering millions at the time of Vietnam, and we were all affected by this violence. I think we were a pale reflection of that terrorism. So that’s what I thought about the whole business.
How do you feel about Obama?
I mean I was a strong supporter during the election. I would like to see him take a much more principled stand on Israel, and a more balanced stand rather than an unbalanced pro-Israel stand.
And for him to bring out some new economic policies while taking out the old Bush policies. Did you read the Paul Krugman article? The one today about old Bush policies?
I want him to do more and take a better, more moral position, and also, not pursue the war. I’m a critical supporter of Obama, you know, to push Obama. And I think he’s open for that and that’s the beauty of the situation.
What sort of advice do you have for protesters who are very unhappy with the way things are going right now, namely the War in Iraq but certainly the concerns of Iran and Afghanistan as well?
We’ve got to organize. We’ve got to organize a mass movement and keep going and keep pushing Obama. I can put it in a nut shell: We have to organize a movement for a second New Deal, and we have to fund it by taking money away from the military. I think security can be established by diplomacy, but we need a mass movement to make this happen. We need a total turnaround from the U.S.
Now back to you, why did you leave New York? Why New Mexico?
During the time I was a fugitive, I got to know New Mexico and I fell in love with the place. I’m literally in love with the land and the people, and that’s where I want to be. But I when I think about it here in New York, I think one of the wonderful things about New Mexico is that there’s less social segregation than in New York. People mix a bit more between classes and races. New York is very segregated internally. Even if you happen to live in the same building, you don’t get to know people. You’re stuck in the same class and in the same clique. I found New York to be way too segregated for my liking. That’s what originally drove me out, and I don’t think it changed any. Do you?
I can live a more integrated life in terms of diversity of friends in New Mexico.
There was a long period of time when you had no communication with your parents. Can you tell me more about how your involvement with this group affected your family life?
Yeah we didn’t speak for seven and a half years. My parents were very hurt and very fearful for me. It was like a time of terror. When I turned myself in, we made peace with each other. Oh gosh, it’s been 30 years since then. I have two children, and I’m about to have grandchildren. And everyone made peace, but it was a horrible time especially for my mother and father.
I’m very remorseful about what I put them through. I thought at the time that it was necessary.
Are you married? Do you have any kids?
Yes, well I’m in my second marriage. My first marriage was with a woman from the Weather Underground. I dedicated my book to her. I was a bachelor for 18 years and now I’ve remarried. And I have two children.
What are you doing now?
I’ve retired from teaching at the community college. I’m organizing in my neighborhood for economic justice issues. Over the years I’ve been active in peace, labor and environmental movements. I’m doing lots of different things. I speak a lot at colleges and speak to college students about organizing. Basically, I tell my story.
